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don't think anything's going to happen it's going to it's going to be with them that argument well boehner came out today and say ok you you know the president you you said how you want to raise taxes and told us if we want to cut things to give you details here's the details and then he proceeded to say raise medicare retirement eligibility age by two years slow down the cost of living adjustments on social security and it was basically screw every social security recipient from now forever and you know gradually shrink that program down and then he had a bunch of guidelines or targets with no specifics whatsoever how long the republicans think they can play this game and at what point are americans going to go what really i mean what is it to december third it was just a few weeks ago that mitt romney lost on basically that same plan on saying well you know we're going to cut all of these deductions and save all this money raise all this revenue and just trust me on the details and people said no and then this is coming boehner coming back with it that's why i think you know and i hate i
don't think anything's going to happen it's going to it's going to be with them that argument well boehner came out today and say ok you you know the president you you said how you want to raise taxes and told us if we want to cut things to give you details here's the details and then he proceeded to say raise medicare retirement eligibility age by two years slow down the cost of living adjustments on social security and it was basically screw every social security recipient from now forever...
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i think for now it's a tactical move on boehner's party. it's not a declaration boehner is supporting ryan in 2016. >> but, jamal, isn't that the problem for the whole party? isn't the problem that this party, unless it can broaden and deal with the new america, the new electorate that they lost to in november -- >> bad. >> -- that they will never be able to regain footing and eventually just be a permanent marginal party? >> absolutely. they've got to figure out a way out of this box. paul ryan -- paul ryan and i are about the same age. these are different kinds of republicans. they're not afraid of talking to people of color, not afraid of some of these things, some of their parents and grandparents were. this is what i'm saying. democrats have to be careful. barack obama supporting a democrat in 2016 does not mean that democrat's going to get black and latino votes. these democrats are going to have to have solid programs that appeal to these constituencies and fundamental relationships and not be dependent upon the president to carry th
i think for now it's a tactical move on boehner's party. it's not a declaration boehner is supporting ryan in 2016. >> but, jamal, isn't that the problem for the whole party? isn't the problem that this party, unless it can broaden and deal with the new america, the new electorate that they lost to in november -- >> bad. >> -- that they will never be able to regain footing and eventually just be a permanent marginal party? >> absolutely. they've got to figure out a way...
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the reason why boehner has trouble cutting a deal is not because boehner can't cut a deal. i think in five minutes' time he and obama would come up -- >> excuse me, excuse me, you're wrong. you're wrong. all that grover has to say, all he has to say is, we're in a particular fiscal crunch right now, and we've got to make allowances for that. if he did that, a lot would change. >> grover only counts because these tea party guys, the 50, 60, 70 in the house, they have a theological opposition to any -- >> let's go -- >> all they're worried about is being primaried from the right -- >> i know -- let's talk about the caucus you used to work with and know. >> very well. >> aren't there a lot of people over there if grover came out and said these are peculiar times, we have to make a couple adjustments. >> members of congress should not have to negotiate with grover norquist. >> but i'm asking you an open question. would that have any influence? >> it could but it would -- for grover he's an activist. he's someone -- he has his ideals, and if he compromises on that, that's harder
the reason why boehner has trouble cutting a deal is not because boehner can't cut a deal. i think in five minutes' time he and obama would come up -- >> excuse me, excuse me, you're wrong. you're wrong. all that grover has to say, all he has to say is, we're in a particular fiscal crunch right now, and we've got to make allowances for that. if he did that, a lot would change. >> grover only counts because these tea party guys, the 50, 60, 70 in the house, they have a theological...
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i think that's what boehner is trying to do. god bless him for it because it's not going to be easy but that's exactly what they have to do in order to figure out how do they become a political party, not a sunsetting party, but a political party that has force, not just within the walls of d.c. but outside as well. >> i'm reminded 69 words of george carlin who said it's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. joy, maria teresa, thank you. the guys who gave us the go go '90s call for even greater tax hikes than the president. shouldn't we listen to them? stay with us. >> please, do something frightening between now and the midterm elections because if you do not, the republicans will have to do something truly terrifying like addressing the needs of blacks, women, and hispanics. um... uh... um... hm... umm... uh... oh ! the windows phone 8x by htc on verizon. it features easy to navigate live tiles that are simple to customize. just pin what matters most right to your homescreen. exclusively with d
i think that's what boehner is trying to do. god bless him for it because it's not going to be easy but that's exactly what they have to do in order to figure out how do they become a political party, not a sunsetting party, but a political party that has force, not just within the walls of d.c. but outside as well. >> i'm reminded 69 words of george carlin who said it's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. joy, maria teresa, thank you. the guys who gave...
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the white house told boehner to, quote, get serious. nancy pelosi called it another assault on the middle class, seniors and our future. and senate na jorty leader harry reid took to the floor this morning. >> republicans again sided with the wealthy of this country. it won't pass. >> the gop proposal calls for $600 billion in entitlement reform, including raising the medicare age. it brings $200 billion from social security, adjusting the inflation rate and raises $800 billion in new tax revenue by reforming the tax cut and closing loopholes. the plan rejects specifically raising tax rates, but it is significant that john boehner has gotten his entire leadership team, including congressman eric cantor, kevin mccarthy and even former vice presidential nominee and budget hawk paul ryan to publicly sign their names to a plan that through closing loopholes raises taxes. in an effort to give this offer more bipartisan credibility, speaker boehner said the plan is based on a proposal by former clinton chief of staff erskine bowles. bowles sa
the white house told boehner to, quote, get serious. nancy pelosi called it another assault on the middle class, seniors and our future. and senate na jorty leader harry reid took to the floor this morning. >> republicans again sided with the wealthy of this country. it won't pass. >> the gop proposal calls for $600 billion in entitlement reform, including raising the medicare age. it brings $200 billion from social security, adjusting the inflation rate and raises $800 billion in...
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just like that, a proposal that john boehner puts out. he's trying to say that it is from the bowles proposal but erskine bowles came out yesterday and said flat out that the proposal the republicans put out does not mimic his. therefore, the republicans are lying again. republicans and the tea party people, they know that they are lying. it is just that simple. the president put out a proposal. ok. don't criticize the president for the proposal. show us a real proposal. do not ask us to trust you. host: reporting in "the new york times." republicans say their counteroffer is close to the numbers supported last year by erskine bowles. he said last week his numbers offered testimony to a special bipartisan congressional committee on a visit reduction were not so much a plan as a back of the envelopes addressed and to show a deal could be struck somewhere between mr. obama's position in the speaker during their talks last year. next caller, colorado, independent line. caller: i think's he's been as a great way for people to have their voice
just like that, a proposal that john boehner puts out. he's trying to say that it is from the bowles proposal but erskine bowles came out yesterday and said flat out that the proposal the republicans put out does not mimic his. therefore, the republicans are lying again. republicans and the tea party people, they know that they are lying. it is just that simple. the president put out a proposal. ok. don't criticize the president for the proposal. show us a real proposal. do not ask us to trust...
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john boehner offers up his own plan today. and the white house has already offered up their response. then later, a photo in the trayvon martin case has been released in color. we'll show it to you and a new heir to the british throne is on its way. it's a baby bonanza. that's ahead. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at capella.edu plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's heah concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. [ gordon ] for some this line is a convenience. how you doing today? i'm good thanks. how are you? i'm good. [ gordon ] but for others, it's all they can afford. every day nearly nine million older a
john boehner offers up his own plan today. and the white house has already offered up their response. then later, a photo in the trayvon martin case has been released in color. we'll show it to you and a new heir to the british throne is on its way. it's a baby bonanza. that's ahead. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in...
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>> john boehner's counteroffer was pathetic. even the tea party members are saying that it was pathetic. this republican party in the house pet better show courage or it's going to be voted out of power two years from. >> the president is going to have to do something big to get this done. there's been four years course of he doesn't get along with the party, he doesn't make the kind of effort that you're talking about. i don't think there's going to be any doubt that they have to find some interhuman connection moment na says we are doing this. >> let's get started. joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed
>> john boehner's counteroffer was pathetic. even the tea party members are saying that it was pathetic. this republican party in the house pet better show courage or it's going to be voted out of power two years from. >> the president is going to have to do something big to get this done. there's been four years course of he doesn't get along with the party, he doesn't make the kind of effort that you're talking about. i don't think there's going to be any doubt that they have to...
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they will also meet with john boehner. boehner counter proposal yesterday. $600 billion in cuts in entitlement and $250 billion in changes in way the government changes inflation that would impact social security. let me bring in the national journal from the editor. good morning. i want to talk to you about this republican proposal saying republicans in congress want to get serious about asking the wealthiest to pay slightly higher tax rates. we won't be able to achieve a significant balanced approach to the deficit. it does have some revenue in it, even though it's not from tax increases. so what does this opening offer say about where we are in these negotiations? >> well, it seems very difficult to imagine that we're going to be getting to a deal that will handle everything that needs to be addressed before the end of the year. i think the first main thing that needs to be addressed is the question of the tax cuts expiring. and for the obama administration, the question is, is it in their interest to trade tax cuts for
they will also meet with john boehner. boehner counter proposal yesterday. $600 billion in cuts in entitlement and $250 billion in changes in way the government changes inflation that would impact social security. let me bring in the national journal from the editor. good morning. i want to talk to you about this republican proposal saying republicans in congress want to get serious about asking the wealthiest to pay slightly higher tax rates. we won't be able to achieve a significant balanced...
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that said, how much is boehner helped by his proposal? his proposal seemed a little bit not quite even close to what boehner and the president were in july of 2011 when the grand b bargain talks fell apart but now you've got conservative criticism of what he did offers as a reminder how difficult it is to find 218 votes in the house. >>> well, what the president set to announce his secretary of state pick, some worry it may be stretched out now to early next week, senator john kerry desperately wants the job, has stayed very, very quiet. yesterday he exchanged good natured ribbing with senator john mccain at a news conference called for support of a u.n. treaty to support those with disabilities around the world. mccain started it off. >> thank you very much, mr. secretary. [ laughter ] >> thank you very much, mr. president. [ laughter ] this is what happens when you get too loose. >> kerry and mccain are working together on the effort to persuade their senate colleagues to ratify the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities.
that said, how much is boehner helped by his proposal? his proposal seemed a little bit not quite even close to what boehner and the president were in july of 2011 when the grand b bargain talks fell apart but now you've got conservative criticism of what he did offers as a reminder how difficult it is to find 218 votes in the house. >>> well, what the president set to announce his secretary of state pick, some worry it may be stretched out now to early next week, senator john kerry...
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the boehner plan does that. >> if the boehner plan doesn't specific where his taxes come from. it says unnamed tax loopholes. >> before -- they moved and said listen we're willing to do $8 hurricane katrina billion in deductions not just for scoring. that's a huge concession. where is the president's concession. >> let me ask doug. that's a great point. i don't see the president -- in fact president has become harder line. he was somewhat -- he was somewhat accommodating right after the re-election. he's become harder line. i agree with that point. doug, you know the numbers. once again, i ask you, does boehner's idea of capping upper end deductions work to raise revenues, heaven forbid without damaging the middle class? does it work? >> yes, absolutely it works, and, you know, it's important to recognize we have two different problems. problem number one is the fiscal cliff and threat of recession. raising any more taxes doesn't make any sense. this is politics trumping economic sense. second problem is fixing the debt and there's this debate about how much revenue, how much s
the boehner plan does that. >> if the boehner plan doesn't specific where his taxes come from. it says unnamed tax loopholes. >> before -- they moved and said listen we're willing to do $8 hurricane katrina billion in deductions not just for scoring. that's a huge concession. where is the president's concession. >> let me ask doug. that's a great point. i don't see the president -- in fact president has become harder line. he was somewhat -- he was somewhat accommodating right...
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let's talk about some of john boehner's plan, though. john boehner is not moving off of rates. he's stilling talking about loophole closures. do you believe you can accomplish what needs to be done on the revenue side and let's step plate democrats have to be more specific about us entitlement side. can you accomplish what you need on the revenue side just by flattening deductions and closing loop snoels. >> it depends on where you set the cap, but i think what's happening here is that the speaker has put on the table revenues, very specific number, $800 billion, a big number compared to where he was before. the president has said $1.6 trillion. well, i think the obvious agreement here is 1.2. split the difference. how you get that extra 400 is an issue. there are a lot of ways to do it. revenues is not a complicated part of this situation. what is really more complex is the issue of how you get the entitlements controlled because there's really been no substantive ideas put forward on that get to the numbers that you really need to get to. now, what interestingly enough what t
let's talk about some of john boehner's plan, though. john boehner is not moving off of rates. he's stilling talking about loophole closures. do you believe you can accomplish what needs to be done on the revenue side and let's step plate democrats have to be more specific about us entitlement side. can you accomplish what you need on the revenue side just by flattening deductions and closing loop snoels. >> it depends on where you set the cap, but i think what's happening here is that...
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that's the christmas message from speaker boehner. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. >>> in the belly of the beast. let's play "hardball." ♪ >>> good evening. i'm chris mam ewes in washington. let me start tonight with some grave robbing. we're going gown to the dark, cold tomb of the late romney campaign. we're going to excavate the murky truths that were the living heart and mind of the defeated republican effort. going to exhume tonight the guts of the thinking that went on and went so wrong. tonight, we get what we only guessed at, the results of which played out in the numbers of election night. the nasty, anti-immigrant politics, the attitude toward that 47%, the failure to turn out the white male vote, the reason romney picked ryan and the wild prelude to the clipt eastwood performance. tonight on "hardball," the dark arona of what lies now beneath the dirt so we can understand what it looks like, to think and feel your way into a historic disaster. with me are jeff zeleny with "the new york times" and susan milligan wh
that's the christmas message from speaker boehner. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. >>> in the belly of the beast. let's play "hardball." ♪ >>> good evening. i'm chris mam ewes in washington. let me start tonight with some grave robbing. we're going gown to the dark, cold tomb of the late romney campaign. we're going to excavate the murky truths that were the living heart and mind of the defeated republican effort. going to exhume tonight the guts...
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please reach out to john boehner at speaker boehner on twitter. gracey saying why do republicans keep harping about entitlements. they're earned benefits. is it to satisfy some deep-seated sadistic need to starve people? allen says i have an idea! let's let speaker boehner live on my paycheck for a month. i bring home $480 every two weeks after taxes. and damian says he reached out to speaker boehner on twitter and said i told him he was wrong and bill, speaker boehner started crying. he's very sad. >> bill: i guess -- we've been asking everybody to get in touch with this office and tell them to lead or get out of the way. lead or resign because he's showing no leadership by sticking to the same old tired arguments that they were -- that we heard before november 6th. but i guess we should have warned people that -- expect him to break down. >> feelings may get hurt. >> emotional guy. >> bill: you know where he was last night man. he might be total anti-obama, unwilling to compromise, not willing to even recognize there was an election but he was a
please reach out to john boehner at speaker boehner on twitter. gracey saying why do republicans keep harping about entitlements. they're earned benefits. is it to satisfy some deep-seated sadistic need to starve people? allen says i have an idea! let's let speaker boehner live on my paycheck for a month. i bring home $480 every two weeks after taxes. and damian says he reached out to speaker boehner on twitter and said i told him he was wrong and bill, speaker boehner started crying. he's very...
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how much pressure is speaker boehner under? does he have real allies at this point, since it seems he's being pulled in multiple directions here? >> speaker boehner is under enormous pressure, and if he needed to have this vote with just his own caucus or conference, he wouldn't be able to get it done. to the vote in the house, i think for every -- i think there's more tom coles there than we know that won't speak up. >> why won't they speak up? are they waiting to see the next round of back and forth? >> well, that could be part of it, but also, they're a little bit concerned about what their constituents are going to say. they don't want their e-mail box bombarded by the heritage foundation. now you see two extreme views. i think you'll end up at the trillion dollar mark, and i think that speaker boehner will need a lot of of democrats but i think he'll get them if everybody can come to a plan. he can use his moderates and democrats and get the votes he needs. >> thank you all for your time. great pleasure to have you on the
how much pressure is speaker boehner under? does he have real allies at this point, since it seems he's being pulled in multiple directions here? >> speaker boehner is under enormous pressure, and if he needed to have this vote with just his own caucus or conference, he wouldn't be able to get it done. to the vote in the house, i think for every -- i think there's more tom coles there than we know that won't speak up. >> why won't they speak up? are they waiting to see the next...
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john boehner opened the door for that. president obama has indicated no intention of looking at that. host: what deductions would you put on the table? guest: tax reform is not to raise revenue. is to make the tax code less of a drag on the economy. we do that by lowering tax rates and getting rid of some deductions, exemptions, credits. but we do not do it to raise revenue. host: chuck marra, how important our deductions? guest: they are very important. if you get into this notion that they are loopholes, then you look at the very popular deductions the people rely on. they're trying to balance the economic weakness with the long-term needs of the economy, which is that we do face a future of deficits that are unsustainable. we are trying to stabilize the debt has a share of our economy over time. that means about $4 trillion in savings. the good news is, last year, the congress and the president got together and locked in about $4 trillion of spending cuts. it has to be enacted. we're talking about 40% of the spending bu
john boehner opened the door for that. president obama has indicated no intention of looking at that. host: what deductions would you put on the table? guest: tax reform is not to raise revenue. is to make the tax code less of a drag on the economy. we do that by lowering tax rates and getting rid of some deductions, exemptions, credits. but we do not do it to raise revenue. host: chuck marra, how important our deductions? guest: they are very important. if you get into this notion that they...
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. >> stephanie: let me borrow a term from john boehner, i am flabbergasted by the budget which they put forward, which is basically paul ryan's budget right? >> more or less. i mean it's basically a repeat. they come up with revenues but they won't touch tax rates, and they don't really say how they get the revenues. they would get it from what they call loopholes, deductions. they don't specify where it would come from, so really it's a combination of the ryan budget, and what romney -- governor romney began to say toward the end of the election when he was worried a they were being tabbed as the party of the very wealthy, so he said well, we won't lower taxes on the very wealthy, because we'll get ahold of loop holds and deductions but they never said what they were and they continue to evade. but mainly they evade the basic question, are we going to keep the high income tax breaks or are we not? and if they insist on keeping them, they are going to take themselves and the country over the cliff. >> stephanie: uh-huh. this is -- we have been saying -- i don't think this is fooling any
. >> stephanie: let me borrow a term from john boehner, i am flabbergasted by the budget which they put forward, which is basically paul ryan's budget right? >> more or less. i mean it's basically a repeat. they come up with revenues but they won't touch tax rates, and they don't really say how they get the revenues. they would get it from what they call loopholes, deductions. they don't specify where it would come from, so really it's a combination of the ryan budget, and what...
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john boehner still has one to bestow. the man who currently holds the house ethics committee chair is bonner. he said he doesn't want the job this time. but again, how is it going to be a woman? there are no republican women on that committee. so who knows. there have been no republican women on that committee in years. this one might even be more awkward than the last one that john boehner had to go through gyrations to fix. good luck on that, mr. speaker. honestly, the problem that republicans have in trying to appear diverse in their leadership is that they just don't have a deep pool of republican-elected women to choose from. there aren't that many. here's what just happened to make that worse. republicans already had like no women in congress. before this last election out of 241 members of congress, only 24 republicans were women. 24 republicans heading into the last election. after this election, they went down. they went from 24 down to 20. a net loss of four. today that net loss of four became a net loss of five
john boehner still has one to bestow. the man who currently holds the house ethics committee chair is bonner. he said he doesn't want the job this time. but again, how is it going to be a woman? there are no republican women on that committee. so who knows. there have been no republican women on that committee in years. this one might even be more awkward than the last one that john boehner had to go through gyrations to fix. good luck on that, mr. speaker. honestly, the problem that...
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this was the damage that john boehner hung over the white house last year. the white house said we're going to put this all in one and boehner said you have to pay me a special price. it would be insane not to come to a resolution on this issue once and for all. >> it's really the only card that he hold. obama has the advantage of letting--going over the cliff and letting it all expire so he starts to get the revenue that he wants. what does boehner have to negotiate? j. >> cenk: this is dr. strangelove territory. this is peter sellers pushing the button. you do this, and you destroy yourself. it's an insane negotiating ploy. it's hard to think that he could push that button. he used it last year and there was a consensus that politically that republicans lost face and lost public support and they were playing with fire. am i misreading this? >> no, because i think part of it, again, we're talking about the markets. it strikes fear in the markets. they say, president obama you better do something because the stock markets and the bond markets are reacting ne
this was the damage that john boehner hung over the white house last year. the white house said we're going to put this all in one and boehner said you have to pay me a special price. it would be insane not to come to a resolution on this issue once and for all. >> it's really the only card that he hold. obama has the advantage of letting--going over the cliff and letting it all expire so he starts to get the revenue that he wants. what does boehner have to negotiate? j. >> cenk:...
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boehner. can't you get one? our tax code is how many thousands of pages and you can't give us one loophole? well, on tv and on paper, republicans refuse to offer details about just how they are going to get all this revenue. timothy geithner explained by the republicans can't sell the specifics of their plan. >> if republicans would like to go beyond these reforms, they should tell us how they want to do it. >> what if they were to propose the republican budget that they passed? >> there's no reason they are going to do that. the american people could take a careful, hard look at that plan and they found no merit in it. >> this thing called the ryan plan, president obama continues to take his case to the american people who rejected the ryan plan. today he answered questions directly on twitter. one person asked, why won't keeping tax rates low across the board encourage more hires and therefore, more tax revenue? the president responded, high-end tax cuts do the least for economic growth and cost almost $ 1 tri
boehner. can't you get one? our tax code is how many thousands of pages and you can't give us one loophole? well, on tv and on paper, republicans refuse to offer details about just how they are going to get all this revenue. timothy geithner explained by the republicans can't sell the specifics of their plan. >> if republicans would like to go beyond these reforms, they should tell us how they want to do it. >> what if they were to propose the republican budget that they passed?...
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here is the offer that john boehner put forward--butkis. nothing. he said, i'm interested in raising revenue or we're willing to do that. so how much, you want to cut medicare? you want to cut social security? john, admit it, you want to cut social security. no, no i want the president to say that. why would he say that? that's not his position. that's your position. you have not made no offer, no offer. i don't want you to get confused because the rest of tv will say he said-she said. no the republicans have made no offer, none. they're full of it. now the white house is fighting back. this is the thing that is flabbergasting. the white house communication director said, the president is not going to negotiate with himself. he has laid out his position, and the republicans have to come to the table. my reaction to that was-- >> flabbergasted. >> cenk: what? the white house not negotiating with itself? that's fantastic. do you remember what president obama said in 2010 because he had these negotiations with the republicans over the stimulus package.
here is the offer that john boehner put forward--butkis. nothing. he said, i'm interested in raising revenue or we're willing to do that. so how much, you want to cut medicare? you want to cut social security? john, admit it, you want to cut social security. no, no i want the president to say that. why would he say that? that's not his position. that's your position. you have not made no offer, no offer. i don't want you to get confused because the rest of tv will say he said-she said. no the...
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. >> i feel almost sorry for john boehner. >> does john boehner have control of his caucus? >> will john boehner lead his sdmaukz. >> is he leading his caucus or will his caucus lead him? >> two party two is going to dwarf tea party one. >> this is embarrassing. >> he's the problem. >> he's willing to act like the election never happened. >> we're not getting anywhere. >> we're going over the cliff. >> it's the gop who has been short on specifics. >> i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. >> the same exact policies. >> this shows that republicans are really chicken hawks. >> you can't be serious. >> chicken hawks when it comes to reducing the debt. >> get serious. >> we're not getting anywhere. >> the path to nowhere. >> be prepared for the plunge. >> i would say we're know where know where. >> there's clearly a chance. >>> today, john boehner, eric cantor and paul ryan finally kind of sort of responded to the president's budget proposal, a proposal of their own that they were so unmarried to that they didn't put their names on it. they said the whole thing was er
. >> i feel almost sorry for john boehner. >> does john boehner have control of his caucus? >> will john boehner lead his sdmaukz. >> is he leading his caucus or will his caucus lead him? >> two party two is going to dwarf tea party one. >> this is embarrassing. >> he's the problem. >> he's willing to act like the election never happened. >> we're not getting anywhere. >> we're going over the cliff. >> it's the gop who has been...
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and john boehner is under a tremendous amount of pressure to look tough. they want to beat their chests and say we're standing up to barack obama before they have to cave. so that's why i think a lot of the negotiations are happening publicly. in the end it's going to be a private meeting and things are going to get done. >> john, do you agree? >> i do. i think both sides should probably be embarrassed at this point. we are not in the get it done stage. we're in the public relations campaign phase. both of the them have put forward less specificity than you would see in a $50,000 mortgage application yet we're talking about $2 billion. so i think both of them are trying to secure their position with the public and then we will see this get done as we get closer. >> so, john, let me ask you this, so will the republicans at any point say, well, we kind of have to raise taxes on the wealthiest americans to get a deal done? do you think that will happen eventually? >> well, let's not forget, in their plan they are raising the tax on the wealthy but they're doi
and john boehner is under a tremendous amount of pressure to look tough. they want to beat their chests and say we're standing up to barack obama before they have to cave. so that's why i think a lot of the negotiations are happening publicly. in the end it's going to be a private meeting and things are going to get done. >> john, do you agree? >> i do. i think both sides should probably be embarrassed at this point. we are not in the get it done stage. we're in the public relations...
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the president has more leverage than he obviously had last summer. >> and -- and -- if boehner can't control his caucus then he shouldn't be speaker, unless they are absolutely convinced that eric cantor can't get the vote. >> stephanie: yes. charlie how do you see this playing out? >> i'm still very -- i'm still -- i'm about to harsh stephanie's mellow here -- i'm a little bit worried that the president might have that little tinker bell on his shoulder saying make a deal just to make a deal. >> oh, dear. >> but i think there will be stimulus no substantive cuts to medicare benefits. i don't believe there will be any touching of social security but i'm not entirely saying that won't come up down the road. but whatever deal is stwruk is going to be within the universe you know, set out by geithner's original proposal. >> stephanie: that's good news but i'm reading a story, gop leaders may be pondering a deal on taxes. letting the top marginal rates go up blah blah blah. i have been saying like there is part of me -- if they stick with where they are now, why don't we go down as you c
the president has more leverage than he obviously had last summer. >> and -- and -- if boehner can't control his caucus then he shouldn't be speaker, unless they are absolutely convinced that eric cantor can't get the vote. >> stephanie: yes. charlie how do you see this playing out? >> i'm still very -- i'm still -- i'm about to harsh stephanie's mellow here -- i'm a little bit worried that the president might have that little tinker bell on his shoulder saying make a deal...
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>> speaker boehner and i speak frequently. and, you know, i think the issue right now -- >> so, when? when will the two of you sit down in a room? >> you know, i don't think that the issue right now has to do with sitting in a room. >> reporter: in part, the white house was burned by the debt ceiling negotiations of 2011, when lots of meetings failed to stave off a fiscal nightmare. but there's another strategy at play. some in the administration say they learned in the first term the best way to break washington stalemates, rally the public to their cause. here's how the president put it to cbs news. >> so getting out of this town, spending more time with the american people, i need to do a better job of that in my second term. >> a better job of explaining? >> well, explaining, but also inspiring. >> now, wolf, for now, negotiations between the white house and congressional republicans are on deep freeze. at the white house, they are just waiting for the republicans to blink and agree to raise rates for the wealthiest. repub
>> speaker boehner and i speak frequently. and, you know, i think the issue right now -- >> so, when? when will the two of you sit down in a room? >> you know, i don't think that the issue right now has to do with sitting in a room. >> reporter: in part, the white house was burned by the debt ceiling negotiations of 2011, when lots of meetings failed to stave off a fiscal nightmare. but there's another strategy at play. some in the administration say they learned in the...
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john boehner, the speaker of the house, sent a message that a deal was in the works. he threw several house members off of key committees when they criticized him openly for looking like he was ready to make some deal on taxes with president obama. that's a sign to me that he's going to clear the decks to try to push through a deal. it's a sign that we're going get some kind of tax increases for the top 2%. i don't know where those numbers are going to be. pretty clear to me that a deal is in the works and we're heading in that direction. what i'm not sure of is whether the market will go up on this, necessarily. >> in terms of that january effect, bob, does that even matter this year? >> yes, look, it's not long from anybody, january and february are the best months of the year. that's a factor. >> let me ask you about putting money to work, keith springer. you say we're going to get a deal regardless. we may get a deal regardless, but that deal means probably higher taxes and lower spending. what are the areas in the economy in your view that get impacted most by a
john boehner, the speaker of the house, sent a message that a deal was in the works. he threw several house members off of key committees when they criticized him openly for looking like he was ready to make some deal on taxes with president obama. that's a sign to me that he's going to clear the decks to try to push through a deal. it's a sign that we're going get some kind of tax increases for the top 2%. i don't know where those numbers are going to be. pretty clear to me that a deal is in...
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they hammered speaker boehner's proposal. >> we don't know who pays. we don't know what we are talking about in terms actual legislation to increase revenues it is magic beans and fairy dust. >>reporter: it doesn't sound like they are ready for a compromise. he said they do not take speaker boehner's proposal seriously enough to offer a counterpropsal so the white house believes the ball is still in the republicans' court. >>shepard: but speaker boehner has moved, if shiply and if for the first time in public but he has moved. >>reporter: he has. he is not willing yet, not yet, anyway, willing to raise tax rates. in speaker boehner's proposal he put revenue, tax revenue of $800 billion on the table. you her the white house said this was not enough detail but they say in the republican side it would be from limiting deductions and republican leader said this. >> republicans have move add great deal. who was the first person right after the election, the speaker went down and provided revenue. we had not heard that before. when has the president offered
they hammered speaker boehner's proposal. >> we don't know who pays. we don't know what we are talking about in terms actual legislation to increase revenues it is magic beans and fairy dust. >>reporter: it doesn't sound like they are ready for a compromise. he said they do not take speaker boehner's proposal seriously enough to offer a counterpropsal so the white house believes the ball is still in the republicans' court. >>shepard: but speaker boehner has moved, if shiply...
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boehner said his plan represents a middle ground. he's ready and eager to talk to the president about it. congresswoman kathy mcmorris rogers of washington state is the party's conference chair in the house. >> we're going to either succeed together or we're going to fail together. the president is calling for higher taxes as well as more spending. he's calling for another stimulus. at a time when we need tax reform. we need to be looking at... and the republicans have put forward tax reform that includes closing the loopholes, eliminating some of those tax credits, that will actually impact the wealthiest. >> reporter: some republicans said the boehner plan goes too far in taxing the well-off. south carolina senator jim demint, a staunch fiscal conservative, blasted the plan on twitter today. he said speaker boehner's offer of an $800 billion tax hike will destroy jobs and allow politicians in washington to spend even more. but the senate's democratic majority leader harry reid warned republicans against listening to such voices. >>
boehner said his plan represents a middle ground. he's ready and eager to talk to the president about it. congresswoman kathy mcmorris rogers of washington state is the party's conference chair in the house. >> we're going to either succeed together or we're going to fail together. the president is calling for higher taxes as well as more spending. he's calling for another stimulus. at a time when we need tax reform. we need to be looking at... and the republicans have put forward tax...
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i don't -- speaker boehner and i speak frequently. the issue doesn't have to sit in a room. the issue that is relevant is the acknowledgment if we are going to raise revenues, that is sufficient to balance with the cuff cuts that we have made and further reform and entitlement i am prepared to make, that we are going to have to see the rates on the top 2%. go up. and we are not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> getting in to that room and hammering out the deal doesn't seem like it's happening anytime soon. there may be talking behind the scenes. as far as the big players it doesn't mean to be a lot of movement on the fiscal cliff. here is what the senate minority leader had to say. >> i hope at some point here the president will understand that there will be no solution to this. i remind people that there is only one person out of 307 million americans who can sign something in law. that is the president. only one person can support a deal he makes. that is the president. >> tucker carlson. nina easton and charles krauthammer. welcome back. what do you think? >>
i don't -- speaker boehner and i speak frequently. the issue doesn't have to sit in a room. the issue that is relevant is the acknowledgment if we are going to raise revenues, that is sufficient to balance with the cuff cuts that we have made and further reform and entitlement i am prepared to make, that we are going to have to see the rates on the top 2%. go up. and we are not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> getting in to that room and hammering out the deal doesn't seem...
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speaker boehner is ready today. let's get the job done. >> all right. congresswoman kathy mcmorris rodgers. thank you for coming on the show. come back, glad you're there in the negotiations talking to everybody. >> eugene robinson, final thoughts this block? >> well, you know, actually congress and the president have agreed on a huge deficit reduction package. it's called the fiscal cliff. so, you know, in my darker moments, i think we're going over it, and what if we went over it and the world didn't end? that would be kind of interesting. we'd take a big bite out of the deficit and everybody's taxes would go up, but i think the sun would come up tomorrow. >> huh. >> we may find out. >> okay, little orphan annie. >> so, gene, do you think right now that's you advise the president to do if the republicans don't come forward with more specifics? >> if i'm advising the president right now i'm advising him to wait a while. and that maybe when we get closer to the date, the calendar will concentrate the minds of many people in washington and a conversation
speaker boehner is ready today. let's get the job done. >> all right. congresswoman kathy mcmorris rodgers. thank you for coming on the show. come back, glad you're there in the negotiations talking to everybody. >> eugene robinson, final thoughts this block? >> well, you know, actually congress and the president have agreed on a huge deficit reduction package. it's called the fiscal cliff. so, you know, in my darker moments, i think we're going over it, and what if we went...
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speaker boehner $800 billion from tax reform. i think a logical number would be $1.4 trillion, $700 billion from reforms, $00 billion from tax rates, he did that, you got, some spending items earlier in the day, you could come up with numbers that would work. here's the bottom line. i think our goal in terms of the market should be a deficit that is small enough at the end of the deck kate that our tet to g.d.p. ratio stabilizes. if we can get it stable by the end they have decade, we're golden, in the sense that we're not going to solve our problems forever but we're going to solve our problems now, the markets will be ok, businesses will be ok, and the economy fundamentals will improve. raising the rates. >> the deductibility to get to 700,000 -- >> you asked the question, you get the money. right here. tax policy center october 17. the answer is, you get the money from the deductions. and the question is why we would want to push rethe rates higher and higher, why we'd want to move further and further away from the simpson bow
speaker boehner $800 billion from tax reform. i think a logical number would be $1.4 trillion, $700 billion from reforms, $00 billion from tax rates, he did that, you got, some spending items earlier in the day, you could come up with numbers that would work. here's the bottom line. i think our goal in terms of the market should be a deficit that is small enough at the end of the deck kate that our tet to g.d.p. ratio stabilizes. if we can get it stable by the end they have decade, we're...
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dispatch the lieutenants in this case because it is president of the united states and speaker boehner and what not of the as i said you send out your feelers behind the scenes for back rm discussions if not negotiations that the erican public is never going to berivy too of course. melissa: yeah. >> i would be very surprised if that wasn't going on because the magnitude of what this means to this country and the economy of this country is so profound that i would be shocked if, that there is --. melissa: well, i don't know. you're going back to giving them a lot of credit. i'm not sure i'm willing to go there with you. what do you think of tte fact boboth sides come out instantly after an offer is that it is terrible? president obama was out here, blink of the eye after republicans came out with their plan to say this is not in the spirit. >> today you're talking about? messa: yeah, today. what does that tell you? should we read anything into at or is that -- >> again i wl liken it to there are plenty o people far more ucated on this than i but from a negotiation standpoint i think ag
dispatch the lieutenants in this case because it is president of the united states and speaker boehner and what not of the as i said you send out your feelers behind the scenes for back rm discussions if not negotiations that the erican public is never going to berivy too of course. melissa: yeah. >> i would be very surprised if that wasn't going on because the magnitude of what this means to this country and the economy of this country is so profound that i would be shocked if, that...
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john boehner will be with governors plus conduct rallies with small business owners. we don't know if these two sides are going to reach an agreement any time soon and the fiscal cliff is past approaching. >> thank you very much. we are going to keep with the fiscal cliff and take a look at who is talking. charles krauthammer weighing in on the negotiations. the approach on the president and democrats didn't about the economy at all but rather about politics. >> i am not serious at all about entitlements. the president himself said that's where the money is. on social security he denied there is any effect on the deficit at all. durbin said social security hasn't added a dime to the deficit. in 2012 it added $160 billion of debt. that is more than a dime. there are 2.5 trillion in the trust fund in social security that will take care of it for 20 more years, 25 more years. that means pieces of paper in the trust fund where the treasury says we will pay you. it doesn't have the money. it spent surpluss in the past. that's a promise from the treasury which is pank ru ba
john boehner will be with governors plus conduct rallies with small business owners. we don't know if these two sides are going to reach an agreement any time soon and the fiscal cliff is past approaching. >> thank you very much. we are going to keep with the fiscal cliff and take a look at who is talking. charles krauthammer weighing in on the negotiations. the approach on the president and democrats didn't about the economy at all but rather about politics. >> i am not serious at...
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john boehner, he wants fewer deductions, limits on deductions. that's the status quo right now of the discussion there. i want to bring you to the big board because we're going nowhere this tuesday morning on very low volume. back below 13,000. tuesday morning, here's the company: elizabeth macdonald is with us. david asman is with us. and nicole petallides right there on the floor of the new york stock exchange. china, cracking down on money transfers at wynn macau casinos. i guess that wynn stock is going to be down? nicole: you are right. we're seeing the stock down nearly 4% here. this is not good news for them overall. basically china's new leadership cracking down on fast money moving. they are going to set rules where you can't -- restrict the limits on how much money can actually be taken out of the country. there are a lot of new rules that would be put in place. all of it is obviously for responsible gambling, but it seems to be a lot deeper than that. stuart: i've been to that casino in macau. i mean totally different from anything you
john boehner, he wants fewer deductions, limits on deductions. that's the status quo right now of the discussion there. i want to bring you to the big board because we're going nowhere this tuesday morning on very low volume. back below 13,000. tuesday morning, here's the company: elizabeth macdonald is with us. david asman is with us. and nicole petallides right there on the floor of the new york stock exchange. china, cracking down on money transfers at wynn macau casinos. i guess that wynn...
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any moment now, house speaker john boehner will light the capitol christmas tree. yes, it's still called a christmas tree. enjoy it while can. this is temporary set. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] with 160 more miles per tank, the distances aren't getting shorter. ♪ the trucks are going farther. the new 2013 ram 1500. ♪ with the best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ guts. glory. ram. share "not even close." share "you owe me..." share "just right." the share everything plan. shareable data across 10 devices with uimited talk and text. by htc for $49.99. >> dana: back with more on the murder-suicide we talked about in the "a" block. we'll talk about the possible underlying factors of the violence. listen to rush limbaugh. >> might there have been a better outcome if there had been a marriage involved between mr. belcher and his girlfriend? i don't know.l i know is that it the statistics from single parenthood and children out of wedlock and what happens to kids in those circumstances, what happens to the fathers in those circumstances.
any moment now, house speaker john boehner will light the capitol christmas tree. yes, it's still called a christmas tree. enjoy it while can. this is temporary set. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] with 160 more miles per tank, the distances aren't getting shorter. ♪ the trucks are going farther. the new 2013 ram 1500. ♪ with the best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ guts. glory. ram. share "not even close." share "you owe me..." share...
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so, just does speaker boehner have the votes for his proposal? >> guest: i think the question will be does the president have the votes? because the speaker put some things out in terms of entitlements and democrats are willing and screaming that can't be part of it, yet all of them privately will tell you what's driving the deficit more than any single thing of medicare and medicaid and longer-term social security, so the mere fact that we are discussing those types of things fit. in terms of the votes, look, if it's going to be a deal there has to be votes from both sides. the reality is -- and these guys, the president and the speaker dealt with one another before. they've never been able to come to a deal. they came to a huge deal during the lame-duck session in 2010 on extending the bush tax cuts. they came to another deal without shutting down the government in april of 2011 cutting discretionary spending by billions of dollars and they came to another one on the debt ceiling as well which was a 2.2 trillion dollar long-term reduction in ex
so, just does speaker boehner have the votes for his proposal? >> guest: i think the question will be does the president have the votes? because the speaker put some things out in terms of entitlements and democrats are willing and screaming that can't be part of it, yet all of them privately will tell you what's driving the deficit more than any single thing of medicare and medicaid and longer-term social security, so the mere fact that we are discussing those types of things fit. in...
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is the same of what speaker john vader, offered the president in their negotiations -- speaker john boehner offered the president in their negotiations in 2011. the white house has consistently signaled a loss of of weeks that they will not accept any deal that keeps tax rates for the wealthy. >> russell burma is a staff writer for the hill. thank you. >> thank you. >> and you can go to our website c-span.org to read the letter that the president wrote to house rubble can survey. journal" iston goura live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c- span. the greatest threat to national and economic security is dependent on foreign oil according to a new survey. -- report. >> this weekend on c-span 3, the city prepares to mark the dropping of the atomic bomb in 1945. >> everybody has their own view of what happened. i do not want to argue. i think we are past that. my whole purpose for being here is to honor the dead and listen to to to accommodate what i can to say this as the happen again. >> we will be joined in washington to discuss meetings. >> the members of congress were told -- the committee also hea
is the same of what speaker john vader, offered the president in their negotiations -- speaker john boehner offered the president in their negotiations in 2011. the white house has consistently signaled a loss of of weeks that they will not accept any deal that keeps tax rates for the wealthy. >> russell burma is a staff writer for the hill. thank you. >> thank you. >> and you can go to our website c-span.org to read the letter that the president wrote to house rubble can...
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the white house saying that boehner counteroffer is nothing new, that it lacks specifics. but i will tell you, zoraida, that one house democratic aid telling cnn that it passed the laugh test. so certainly i guess it could have been worse in some estimations by democrats. >> i suspect some people were laughing. brianna keilar live at the white house for us, thank you. in the next half hour, we'll talk about the prospect for a fiscal cliff deal with california's democratic congressman xavier becerra. >>> the rain and flooding are relentless in northern california. four storms in less than a week left at least one death now attributed to those storms. and more rain is expected today. let's get right to meteorologist rob marciano. he is following it all from the cnn weather center in atlanta. good morning. >> good morning, zoraida. this is the worst stretch of storms that northern california has seen really in about two years. another punch today then we'll set up for a dry trend. the good news is that it has been dry so the ground, even though we've seen a lot of major flood
the white house saying that boehner counteroffer is nothing new, that it lacks specifics. but i will tell you, zoraida, that one house democratic aid telling cnn that it passed the laugh test. so certainly i guess it could have been worse in some estimations by democrats. >> i suspect some people were laughing. brianna keilar live at the white house for us, thank you. in the next half hour, we'll talk about the prospect for a fiscal cliff deal with california's democratic congressman...
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house speaker john boehner inc insists his offer is the best one on the table calling it a credible plan that deserves serious consideration by the white house. jenna: mike emanuel is with us. certainly a challenge to find this ideal plan. what is holding it up. >> reporter: the chairman of the senate budget committee wants a large come proceed hence i have deal in the range of $5 trillion and says a grand bargain can get done if everybody kaoels cool and doesn't overreact to every valley over the net. he this is a camp david-style summit might help things move around. a senate republican told greta van susteren it's time to be honest about retirement benefits. >> you and i need to pay a little more into the system because we can afford it. that is the kind of entitlement reform we need. >> reporter: that gets older americans and their groups all worked up thinking you could be messing with their benefits. jenna: a hot toeupb hot topic, and taxes. it seems they need to have some sort of increase in taxes. how does that play out. >> reporter: the statement from the white house said until
house speaker john boehner inc insists his offer is the best one on the table calling it a credible plan that deserves serious consideration by the white house. jenna: mike emanuel is with us. certainly a challenge to find this ideal plan. what is holding it up. >> reporter: the chairman of the senate budget committee wants a large come proceed hence i have deal in the range of $5 trillion and says a grand bargain can get done if everybody kaoels cool and doesn't overreact to every valley...
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but republican house speaker john boehner dismisses it as, and i'm quoting, la la land. the republicans offered their proposal, that happened about 24 hours ago. the white house quickly labels it as nothing new. business as usual, right? so how do we move beyond this stalemate in washington? we heard from the president, just a short time ago. our chief white house correspondent jessica yellin joins me now, jessica, the president spoke out, sat down in an interview with bloomberg tv, and in listening to the interview, did you hear any clues toward a possible compromise here? >> reporter: not new clues, brooke. the president laid down the marker that we heard from the white house consistently, which is they aren't moving until they hear the republicans agree to raise tax rates on the wealthiest. listen to what the president had to say. >> i think that, you know, we have the potential of getting a deal done, but it is going to require what i talked about during the campaign, which is a balanced responsible approach to deficit reduction that can help give businesses certaint
but republican house speaker john boehner dismisses it as, and i'm quoting, la la land. the republicans offered their proposal, that happened about 24 hours ago. the white house quickly labels it as nothing new. business as usual, right? so how do we move beyond this stalemate in washington? we heard from the president, just a short time ago. our chief white house correspondent jessica yellin joins me now, jessica, the president spoke out, sat down in an interview with bloomberg tv, and in...
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>> reporter: we have the opening bids from speaker boehner and president obama. the different in dollars. the president wants $800 billion more in tax increases. the republicans want approximately more a trillion dollars more spending cuts. that's the difference between the two sides just in dollar terms. there is a difference between the two sides in terms of principle. the principle centers on higher tax rates, yes or no. speaker boehner many latest offer is raise $800 billion mostly from the wealthy by limiting deductions. the president says, no, don't want that. we want to tax the rich with higher tax rates on the rich. we have a dollar difference, a difference in principle. martha: we are hung up on ideology here. if you can get the money one way and it produces a long lasting change to the tax code which both sides say they want, what seems to be the problem? >> reporter: it's ideology. the president one the elect, he says he won it on taxing the rich. he want to win the debate. whether it's the best solutioner to the economy is an entirely different story.
>> reporter: we have the opening bids from speaker boehner and president obama. the different in dollars. the president wants $800 billion more in tax increases. the republicans want approximately more a trillion dollars more spending cuts. that's the difference between the two sides just in dollar terms. there is a difference between the two sides in terms of principle. the principle centers on higher tax rates, yes or no. speaker boehner many latest offer is raise $800 billion mostly...
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tonight, speaker boehner's response to the white house response, saying it's up to the president to come up with a plan. allen west is here. good evening. >> good evening. >> your thoughts, apparently the white house is unimpressed with the proposal by the speakert and white house republicans? >> i think the white house needs to do case studies, calvin coolidge and president john f. kennedy, when you look at what they did with lowering tax rates and increase revenues. calvin coolidge went from 73% to 24%. john f. kennedy from 91% to 71%. they increased revenues. we are not talking about what the president is looking at with his wealth redistribution, we are talking about wealth expansion, economic growth and sound policies to do that. if you want to continue to believe that $250,000 makes someone rich, you are going to crush the small business owners who run at subchapter "s," llcs and we are talking about capital gains from 15 to 25%. that will affect investment. we are talking about dividends from 15 to thirty four 33.44%. death tax to a 55% bracket and the minimum exemption from $5 mi
tonight, speaker boehner's response to the white house response, saying it's up to the president to come up with a plan. allen west is here. good evening. >> good evening. >> your thoughts, apparently the white house is unimpressed with the proposal by the speakert and white house republicans? >> i think the white house needs to do case studies, calvin coolidge and president john f. kennedy, when you look at what they did with lowering tax rates and increase revenues. calvin...
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the word on the street is, by boehner, so read. we have to get the government out of the market. connell: you can see where the compromise could happen, if they wanted to make it happen. if they do, are you relatively optimistic about markets? >> yes,,we think so. the key word, it is actually risk to both sides of the market. that does not make sense. there is lots of risk to the upside. if somehow they do get it resolved, it will be a surprise to the market and the market should rally to the upside. everyone is looking forward to it. they will get it done. the question is when the stock. connell: they wait until after the new year. are we still the best of the bunch question that europe is still a mess. how is china doing? >> we are actually doing the best. just look at china. the chinese economy is actually not doing that well. there are a lot of complex. the new party just took over the control. there are a lot of things to figure out. the u.s. is in the best condition right now. we have to get past this fiscal cliff and move on. connell: we probably would be talking a lot mor
the word on the street is, by boehner, so read. we have to get the government out of the market. connell: you can see where the compromise could happen, if they wanted to make it happen. if they do, are you relatively optimistic about markets? >> yes,,we think so. the key word, it is actually risk to both sides of the market. that does not make sense. there is lots of risk to the upside. if somehow they do get it resolved, it will be a surprise to the market and the market should rally to...